• Help Document the Epidemic of Judicial Abuse Victims

Melissa Vecchio Court Victim

What I have here is **hard evidence of the money making ring taking place within the cuyahoga county domestic court circus.** The reason why we continue to have so many fatherless children, who often grow up to be drug addicts or not present in the life of their own children. Continuing the money-making cycle.

Please take the time to listen to this meeting or read the transcript. This recording is my husband speaking to the guardian ad litem, #EdwardJansen, who he hired so he can see his children. Mind you, a Guardian ad Litem is supposed to be very detailed, very thorough, and investigate every angle of both sides to a case.

**My husband doesn’t drink. He doesn’t smoke. He doesn’t use drugs … (Mom is documented using cocaine and continues to up their childrens dosages of Adderall). He has zero mental health problems outside of seeing a therapist from years of narcissistic abuse, along with parental alienation by the hands of his former wife, Ms. Clautti. My husband has never failed to pay his child support, whether it was $1700 a month or $1100 a month. He has always carried their medical insurance; however, their mother has continued to put her medical obligations in my husband’s name and mailed to her address.

My husband has been forced to complete multiple drug tests, supervised visits, and flat-out cut-off from school and medical records on many occasions. All because Ms. Clautti can’t accept that she failed at marriage.

I have stacks of fraudulent police reports made by Ms. Clautti and her deranged parents. I also have stacks of paperwork from my own court proceedings when Ms. Clautti, Mr. Dregalla and Mrs. Dregalla attacked my private residence. My young children and myself, along with attempts to have my animal killed. This all happened within weeks of my husband moving in with me in 2016.

Beginning in 2014, my husband’s ex-wife began a “Trail of Tears” tour of manipulative triangulation with my husband’s entire family. She would cry to them that he was abusive. By the way, there was never one documented incident of abuse or violence. She would play on the family’s emotions, making up lies and turning his once tight-knit family against him. She withheld the children forĀ  months over a false allegation of domestic violence, which was thrown out, then “allowed” my husband to have 4 hours a week of visitation until a “shared parenting” plan was in place, 4 months later.

In 2019, my husband’s custody case was evaluated in-house, per the request of magistrate JACKSON-WINSTON, by the court family evaluator. The evaluator determined that there was no reason for any change. *However, the evaluator and the supervisor of his visitation dually noted that Ms. Clautti “lacks #boundaries and has control issues”… (I can provide this report).

In 2019, my husband asked his exwife for a second opinion on my stepson’s mental health and requested they get a second opinion. My stepson physically assaulted our 18-month-old. Of course, Ms. Clautti took “great” offense to this and ran to the courts after dropping her weak attorney to hire Cleveland’s notoriously known bastard child of an attorney, Mr. Joseph Stafford. In actuality, she had her parents take out an 86-year mortgage on their home to fund the attorney and exorbitant fees. Ms. Clautti and her attorney claimed my husband didn’t want his son anymore and proceeded to make my husband appear to be a deadbeat. Meanwhile, Ms. Clautti withheld visitation from June 2019 until February 2020, outside of ONE 2-hour visit. Visits only resumed because the courts forced her to. But my husband is the one being painted as the deadbeat.

In February of 2020, the case goes to trial, and Joseph Stafford did what he always does, throwing out lies, using my husband’s family against him, screaming and behaving like his words are gospel. Whenever my husband speaks, Stafford starts crazy-making him and barely lets him have his day in court. Judge TONYA JONES at that point took away his shared parenting and left my husband with 3 hrs for 3 days a month and 1 overnight. After using tears on the magistrate that she was responsible for maintaining the children’s relationship with my husband’s family(the one she alienated him from), once the trial was over, suddenly that family was cut off from the children as well. This is just another masterful manipulation tactic that the courts willingly have overlooked.

Just one month after trial, Ms. Clautti returns to her old ways and denies what little visitation my husband had for 2 months. She all of a sudden resumes visitation for 2 months then cuts off all visitation in June 2020 until February 2021 until the courts forced her to resume visitation AGAIN. See a pattern here? My husband was due one overnight visit per month beginning in February of 2020. He has not had ONE overnight visit through the present day. My husband, who was sick of seeing his children be denied any sort of meaningful relationship with their father, their other brother, and their step-family, was forced to go BACK to court for contempt and willful disregard of a signed order. Yet again, court proceedings dragon for over a year, with little mention of the only reason why they were back in court(contempt of court for refusal of visitation). Instead, the magistrate, full of hot air and an inflated ego, continues to kick the can down the road with no resolution in sight and no real repercussions for the offender. Under the wildly misleading storyline from Squeaky wheel #Stafford, the magistrate buys his snake oil and quickly and consistently makes my husband the scapegoat and ACTUALLY blamed him for the mother refusing visitation for 3 years. And still, for nearly 3 years, the Cuyahoga County domestic relations court has flat-out refused to admonish the true offender in this matter, see the pattern, and recognize every textbook sign of parental alienation.

However, the lengthy, drawn-out, monthly “hearings ” continue for years, with no real issues being addressed and no sense of putting an end to the madness. The magistrate continually states that she’s “sick of seeing the 2 parties in her courtroom” yet fails to gain control of the situation, fails to remain impartial, and lacks the skills to recognize the signs of true alienation. This is all because the moneymaking machine that is the Cuyahoga County domestic relations court stands to reap the benefits of intentionally not resolving serious issues. Magistrates with “social working” backgrounds claim to want what’s best for the children involved while at the same time doing nothing to stop the neglectful abuse.

This has been nearing EIGHT YEARS of abuse. EIGHT YEARS.

Case #DR-14-350383

Friday at 1:37 PM 2021 July 09

Original Recording
How are you doing? Then better all. Well, you know, there’s a couple several reasons why I wanted to sit and talk. I have questions. I need some I guess explanations or answers and just some, you know, some general thoughts I guess. First of all, I don’t know if you know, but I found out today that least so withdrew.
I saw that this morning. I I saw so I don’t know what, you know. Yeah, she didn’t say anything to me. I’ve been trying to call her since our last hearing, okay? And I, I haven’t gotten a call back. So, you know, I’m not 100% sure what’s going on.
I put a call in turn today. They still haven’t heard from her. So obviously, you know, that’s gonna be a big challenge. I’ve been. Well yeah, you’ve already tried this once with Joe. Well, yeah. You know, I’ve been calling attorneys all morning and you know, okay and it’s it’s tough just because of the time.
Well that I understanding at least from what I saw, it looks like she filed a continuous as well to give you time to get. Yeah, I don’t know whether the court grants it or not. I mean, I personally think they will probably because we already have a date in August, but oh, I, I can’t speak to what happened between you and her, but yeah, I know, I didn’t like, you know, I would, I kept asking her to talk to you just because we had met, what was it Memorial Day?
Father’s. Father’s day. You know, I don’t know if she had ever reached out to you and had any talks with you, I spoke to her. I did speak to her at one point. Yeah, but I guess, I guess. Where do you see this guy? Well let’s start there in terms of if, if we don’t come to some kind of agreement, where do you think trial takes us you?
Well, the funny you should ask because my wife got a subpoena today from a show. I saw. Did you see his witnessing exhibitless yesterday was filed? No, I don’t. Like I saw they were filed. I don’t like 20 people on. I’m like, are you kidding me? You know what?
I call him 20 people. No. And last year, they, you know, he had like 10 and the only people that were there were her parents. There were people on that list. I didn’t even know you know I don’t put much stock in his witness lists unless there’s subpoenas but my wife wants nothing to do with this.
You know, she has had health problems in the past because of the stress and the constant barrage of, you know, attacks on our home and, you know, all that stuff by I gave you all that stuff. You know, we explained to you. Like this is like a very real.
Oh she was stressful anything, it is and I’m not gonna tell you, listen, you know what here? Good old lawyer. Once told me many, many years ago, you don’t follow witness that you don’t know what they’re going to say, okay? Now Jose’s a good boy or I’ll be able to he doesn’t lot of crazy questionable stuff at times but, you know, he is a good lawyer.
I think he is. No intention of calling your life, as a, you know, unless it’s to harass her, I’m well, it’s too in that room and that’s what we’re both thinking, you know, he put in a or she put in a call to Nicole today when she got that to find out what the deal is because oh no, you’re gonna get from Nicole is you have to be there on that date and time.
That’s it because I don’t you know, and I talked to her about, you know, looking to get this quash because I don’t know what she can lend as far as testimony. And, you know, she’s seen the children once so type it involved. I know once in two years in two years, so, you know, it’s it’s I don’t have an answer for you.
Yeah, no, I, you know, nobody looking for answer. I mean, it’s it’s to me. I look at this ago, they and again I don’t know where we’re Maggie sees this girl. I don’t know if Maggie thinks you’re just gonna walk away. I don’t know what she expects. I think what’s happening in all honesty?
I think they’re trying to get me to settle or like submit and then stick me with all his attorneys fees because nothing is changed. But 18 and that got all that stuff. I is okay, but all that stuff I gave, I don’t know if you read all of it, I looked through most of it, I think I’ve still got some some stuff to just finish up reviewing.
But this is my biggest thing is I don’t see this stopping because if she, when she got custody last year and I got the time that I got wish was bare minimally. She still found reasons to withhold. Like there’s always going to be reasons and so I either just say, okay, do what you want or go back to court and do this every year, you know, and it’s it’s it is been a mental and physical and emotional strain on me.
My wife and my family, my home, not to mention financially, you know, and it’s to the point where I don’t want to live like this until they’re 18. That’s another 10 years. So you know, and then so going back to their last hearing a few weeks ago, you know, major recommendation.
And I guess I was kind of surprised only because of everything that’s happened. Even just since last year, like, withholding visitation with no accusations of abuse or neglect, or, you know, any criminal activity or anything like that. And even when since you’ve gotten involved, she’s like I haven’t had an overnight in the year and a half with no explanation with no reason there.
And you know, the magistrate seems to kind of forget that sometimes where, you know, that’s not really, it’s not really harped on it. That’s the reason why I came back, it’s important. The first place last year. That’s why I wanted you or any guardian is to see this pattern and to see that, you know, I’m not doing anything harmful to those kids, but steadily being shut out at every turn.
Okay. And you know it’s it’s not Yeah that was like you said okay so you want to know if they think I’m just going to walk away now I oh I don’t think they think you’re going to walk away. I think her ideal situation would be just that you disappear.
That’s what I think hurt ideals situations because because her version of that is, you will, you know, and she’ll hear you, you’ve seen it, show me say the right thing, there’s no problem you know, when I what when I hear her, it’s oh well, you know, it’s then oh it’s difficult this whole covet over bullshit.
Okay, I’m sure those kids saw their grandparents on a regular basis during the I have no doubt about that and here you know what she is? Just passive aggressive, the magistrate is spot on them, just passing aggressive, it was in the FES report the magistrate has said it numerous times, you know, control issues but nobody is stopping it.
There’s no consequences for and therein lies whatever and they’re in lives what a trial does because you know what, it’s not in a recommendation it you know, in particularly what I made was. Okay, but, you know, when I said, okay you’re gonna have follow up with FES. You’re gonna have this with exercise.
Okay? And yes, we focus on this but I also what didn’t get to elaborate or not. Okay, hey mom, if this pattern of behavior persists with you, you know, you you don’t provide information. You don’t respond to questions, okay? This may result in you losing parental ones was right.
And I understand that and you know, that’s my that’s my issue though is that’s why we’ve been here for a year now. And and still even with you involved, she’s resisted. She’s because, you know, she feels here, you want to trial a year, a year and a half ago.
Now, if it’s 16 months ago with an FPS report that basically said, okay, you got alternating weekends and one day a week and missing that. That was essentially what exactly they said. They recommended no change be made to the shared parent. Yeah. So would have been pretty much around what you were doing, okay?
You had trial started. Okay. And look, you walked into a bus, yeah. And put it in a bad spot, you were put in with the judge it, you know? And and here’s I like magic shirt, Jackson. I said, I’d like gesture. I have a lot of respectable people, but at the end of the day, they’re their goal is to get it.
This is seven right? Because if it’s settled, it’s off their docket. It’s off their calendar, it’s a resolution and they don’t have to write a decision, right? Okay. Because that’s also title right, you know, and I say to people like the nice part about seven decases, you could be very creative in the way you do, okay?
I’m sure you’ve heard all the horror stories about jail. Okay? You’ve seen it. He’s difficult heels at me, he nails at the magistrate that was at least I sit there. Okay, one that’s fine. It doesn’t matter, you know to put the part of it is and the reason she feels empowered is look at what happens?
Yeah. Well I know never answers. Okay, well, what’s gonna happen this time, you know, and my answer is, I’m like waiting. You’re not perfect, you’re not perfect. Okay. Your kids deserve to have a relationship with them. Everybody wants to be healthy and everybody wants it to be productive, okay?
But the problem is these weird things keep happening, okay, and why your kids are safe there. You’re not really in a basement. Okay. Well they’re not going to be for long, you know? And and I said I go, you know, and it was truly my intent to help you about moving.
I apologize. But you know what, you know when everybody was in their breakup room was a bad show because what do you think he’s moving? I go all my honest assessment, on it, I go. You can buy a lot more house out that way for way more. Bang for your book.
And the added benefit of mom is not right there because it’s not and I said, it’s crazy. I said they they are not candidates for shared parity, they’re really not the really they can’t communicate on a fundamental one and I said you can put that on, you know, what comes first, I go dad won’t ask a question.
Mom won’t answer mama asking question dad don’t answer that alternative or fight. Then dad will ask another question. My financer and eventually dad loses comp and mom goes see. This is what happens. Yeah and I said I go it’s it. It’s the carton of horseradon, which one should you put in front of the other?
And I go into this is the problem that keeps occurring, you know? And oh they have to do this. Probably have to do it. The kids enjoy their time. Again the kids have fun with that kids like that. The kids want to see dad, you know, am I worried that you know, that they’re concerned that they didn’t get to and what will that look like?
And how will that go? Yeah I’m sure there’s a component that but they don’t hate his life. They don’t she’s not doing anything the various or mean spirited to them, right? I go, she was concerned because all the sudden you know, you know Eco starts acting on and what is he supposed to do with this?
And how is this supposed to be? And I get it, you know, was it the right reach? Probably not as far as what when I last. Yeah, I said, was it the right answer? No, and I said I go you’re here. Didn’t have a lawyer. You know, this wasn’t the first time they’ve been back and you’re back here doing this and he didn’t have anybody say it?
No, your son’s. Not in danger from that. I go. They’re not gonna poison them. I go. What’s gone on is there’s some undermining, there’s some backdog and you know and you’re spending less time which means when it’s only one thing being said in the rear what’s going on? No ideally right you want nothing being set in there.
You want nothing you want it to be quiet. We love you. Everything is good, you know, and mom will say enough that then it turns into something else. And just carbon emulation is, she just keeps going and going and going until you go off, right? And you know, she, you know, you’re the top, she spins you up, and then let’s go and watch it.
And that’s what she does. Yeah. In and I guess that’s, that’s the thing, that it frustrates me because especially the magistrate who has a background in social work, and mental health. Specifically doesn’t see what has happened. And at least she definitely doesn’t present that in the hundreds of conferences.
We’ve had over the years and I mean you’ve seen it. Like she’ll jump my bones about about her therapy and this and that in sports, not seeing the bigger picture as to. I haven’t spent any evening with my kids in years. I have to this year was the first father day.
I’ve seen them in three years, you know, and it’s pretty honest. What are the odds that would have happened? Had I not set. Hey, they need to be over there. What was she offering you two hours three, I’m like, okay, now we’re about five. Yeah, you know, and I say, you know, and and you know, Lisa said, when we the attorneys got back on, she’s like, well, what about no standard holidays?
I’m not saying he doesn’t need to holidays. That’s ridiculous. Nobody doesn’t get hard on this. Come on. I mean, you know, so, you know, father’s day, father’s birthday, kids birthdays thanksgiving for all, all the standard holidays, go back up. And there’s no reason for and you know, I was just talking to my parents the other night and and I was telling like my kids have Christmas gifts from two years ago that they still have even opened.
Because we don’t have the time and if I get the same at all, so in that short amount of time, I have them once a week or whatever. We need to maximize to try to build something. So, I appreciate that. I mean what what my suggestion there would be is guys, you know, your parents get those gifts to you.
Hey, guys struggling here. Perfect example, it’s July guys, guess what? We’re having Christmas in July. These are stuff from Grandma and Grandpa that we didn’t get to get to you guys. No last year, yes, from me. Oh yeah. Give from you know that I haven’t, you know, had the opportunity to spend an appreciable amount of time for them to open stuff and enjoy it and they’re, they’re in lives.
I said, I go look part of this is, you know, the hard part. And one of the things that I think you’re therapist will likely helping with this. Knowing what she does not act not reacting right in because because what she does when she does that and I I you know and it’s old Vinny has the space ball game and this and yeah and she’s doing it.
You know she’s saying she’s doing it is kind of a misnomer because I don’t truly believe she controls the schedule. No. And that’s what that’s not my my contention. It’s the fact that she signed them up for how many sports this year, baseball camp, this, and this, and I didn’t know beforehand.
So, the limited time I have, I start scheduling things in there and, and yes, and they’re in lies, why, you know, not this last conference, but the one we had before why we spent two hours and why I said, hey, listen. The plan baseball the planet soccer. It’s a lot of time coming.
I get it. Yeah I wanted to have more time so we actually have time. I also want them to be there and have what the kids to go to these things. I said if that’s why I was talking about I want to expand this to something. I said, look, I get what I said.
The reality is. I go be, it was a car, not be it. He lives where the reality is, we have a finite amount of time where the kids are not in school that we can work with and deal with. Okay. Yeah. Okay. It’s a, it’s a reality of life that if your kids are gonna participate in sports, they are going to have practices during the week, they’re going to have games during the week.
They’re going to have stuff on the weekends. It is. It is unavoidable. And the point of that is understand that, you know, and say I want to replace both. I wanted to use but Mom, I understand you. Right? You know, you have to understand that the more time, you know, I always say I go, you know, it’s it’s even more different when it’s not here.
When it’s custody one, I go because you’re parenting tend to look at this and say, well, it’s your kids, it’s time, it’s this, it’s really there to cost of it’s a little bit different because you normally have a very finite set of times. Sure. So we tend to look at activities and infringement on that time through a much more restrictive or concerned lens about.
Do we really want this to do this, you know? And like I said I said I go look the reality is if you move you’re gonna be about an hour away. Yeah, I said, do I think distance for these? Two people is a good thing. Yes, without question. I do.
I think I I think there’s no chance of mom dropping over there to do this. You know, I I don’t want your honor. I had a basement from what? I was a kid. I okay, maybe I’m not the perfect example of I turned out fine, but still, I don’t care.
Yeah, I go. They’re spending four nights a month in there at most, even if it was more, even if it was more spending time. Okay, well yeah and that’s the thing like so am I supposed to find a place to live or buy a house with this dedicated space for them, you know.
When they’re there they to me. This is a red hair. This is this issue here. If you haven’t figured out. Okay, the way Joe doesn’t trials. Okay, regardless. Okay, he’s the movement, first person he puts up is the other department and just beats on that person. Okay, you got an hour to two hours of that.
It is. I will tell you, I’ve seen a deliver three and four days scrape four to six hours. And you start here in the same just a slight tweak to the question. Yeah. You admit she’s an excellent mother that had. No. So what I said, sir, she’s a good mom.
By the time I said, sir, you just go over. What was question? Are you asking? So those question, any answer you just hear it all? I’m sure you heard a lot of us. Okay, that’s what it does. Yeah. Okay, then he puts up, maybe a couple of other faculty.
This is that he needs or whatever and then it turns into his client, okay. And then your case goes on and you call whoever. And then he just starts objecting and asks. So then you get back at the testify again and he does the whole thing over, right? It’s exhausting.
It’s yeah, consuming. It’s a waste of the course time. Oftentimes, but, you know, it’s, you have the right to present yourself. But what I would say is, I go his goal at that point is to be using this mission. Okay? You didn’t settle last time. You could picture it.
Yes, surrender. That. That’s the difference. Okay. And you know, and my problem is, is when the court, I always like it with a whole. Well, you guys really need to settle this case. I’m like, okay, so let me see your owner. I haven’t said word, one about my case machine.
If I represent the other party, or we haven’t heard from anybody else, but you’ve had two owners, a testimony of him. Basically force, feeding answers into somebody and we should settle based on that because you said, you say, it doesn’t look good without ever hearing a word from right.
Okay, really. Yeah. Well, you know and just kind of going back that day you came over. I was memorial day, you know, just the things we talked about and like so like the fact that you mentioned like her, don’t be a partner and the fact that she’s always dressed nice.
But you know the kids own, you know, like there’s been no yes, no. I worry because these kids are going to be in an apartment forever and you know, since 2016, when I moved into the house, I’m in now like they’ve had a yard and, you know, kind of a freer environment.
And even, you know, now we’re going to be in something that we own and
And I just, you know, that’s to me, that’s not an ideal situation for them because what,
What I feel like is they have a better chance to thrive in that type of environment, you know, I well and let me explain, let me clarify something. When I talk about, you know, she talks about your house, okay? And that was a big old nail that ran up a bit, there around the basement room when no windows and this and what if there’s a fire?
Okay. Well, here’s the thing. Everywhere. I looked you had appropriate safety equipment, you had fired, you had fire, you know, you it smoked a texture. So many smoke detectors down there. You have the room has two doors. Okay, you’re right. It only has one set of stairs, so do most houses.
Okay. Well, and if you notice in my house, every window they’re not regular double hung windows, they’re custom windows in the rooms, they’re high up off the ground. That’s not something you can just easily jump out of. So, you know, if we’re talking in a very remote scenario, you know, there’s going to be, you know, there were safety concerns response to to these safety concerns.
Our, it’s not a safety. You know how I know it’s on safety concern. Did you get excited by the city of Parma? So that building code violations for having children sleeping in a basement? No. Okay. The children and family services show up at your house and remove the children based on the fact that the children are in a subterranean, bedroom sleeping.
No, thank you. That’s it. No. Okay, you know reason I bring up her apartment in this event is she makes it out. Like your children are trapped in a dungeon in the basement and this around, they are free to move about the house and oh and I said, okay Maggie I go I have I am trying to think of a case that I’ve done in the last 12 years where I have found the sleeping arrangements insufficient for parenting kind of the children.
And the only one I can think of was a guy who lived in downtown Columbus, in a efficiency style apartment, where he didn’t have a better right for his two boys because one was already an adult that is the only one where I said does he truly have space to have regular consistent, you know, a long period of time and parenting, right?
However, there’s a bed. There’s a couch. There’s this, is it perfect? No. But for two nights, it’ll be just fine. You can rock, these kids are in scouting, they can roughly say only one. I’ve been everything about that. So what I bring up when it’s it’s she’s the one making, oh, it’s it’s this.
There’s no room for them and they’re not there in this and I’m like, no, they had between the two of them at one point in time. Five tree over that house, her older son. Who’s now an adult her daughter, their child, and many indigo. Yeah, and I go. So, they don’t want in a three bedroom, cash with seven people of mixes.
You’re gonna have to create another somewhere. Otherwise you’re gonna have four boys. Crammed into one room from college, all the way on down to a younger child, one girl and those two women. Well, and that’s not conducive. And that’s that’s part of you know where she oversteps her boundaries is because she’s just assuming Melissa’s kids are there all the time like she has custody of her kids.
However, they go to her, dad’s house, their dad’s house whenever they feel like or whenever they want. And and there was a, you know, up to a certain point they would be, it would be like every other weekend but then when she started, you know, making these profiles and having city inspectors, like her kids are with it enough and aware enough.
They didn’t want to be there when my kids were there because they don’t want to get caught up, they don’t write and they, they shouldn’t have to be. And and so you know kind of going back to what I was saying earlier. There’s no indication that no matter what.
If if we drop everything and kept everything as is, there’s no no reason to believe that this is going to stop and well. And again, part of the reason I like the idea and it was funny because the suit is just been compliant. We haven’t done. I was like before the magistrate, got it out.
I was going to say, FPS case management, and I’ll tell you why it’s paying the ass program during your case. It doesn’t really help anything, but I consider it kind of like probation afterwards. Okay, so everybody’s on quote, probation afterwards. Okay. Now, my thought is well if they’re gonna be watching and making sure that everybody’s doing the therapy, that’s requiring following up and doing okay.
And there’s there’s the carrot of if this is done, then we go to here. There’s also the stake of if it’s not done then we don’t or we go backwards. The reverse for her is also true Mom. If there’s more miraculous complaints about various things and more unfounded accusations, maybe a basis to start to reduce your time to do this.
And this is, this is my point about this. This is mom. You find any way you can to do? Whatever you can, okay? I don’t know whether she’s found a new man. I don’t know whether here. I don’t care. She’s not in one attractive woman and I don’t think it’s for nothing that she is not found somebody and become remarried.
In the past eight years has been seven seven. Okay. Okay. I don’t think that I don’t think that that is some, you know, mysterious phenomenon rights can do, okay? Because I think which what? What people find out is she’s very neat. Yeah, that you know, the one guy that we told you about that, you know, she was telling the boys, they were moving in with him.
And then she, he came with her one Sunday to pick the kids up at our house, on a Sunday. And she was told not to park in our driveway, she did. Anyway, she wouldn’t move. We called the police that police told her with him in the car, you know, do it again and you’re gonna be arrested for trust passing, and then shortly thereafter, he broke up with her.
Well, that’s the same time when Nikko started having all these behavioral problems because they were close with him, they really liked him and I was good with that because, you know, it’s good to have the more positive influences you have, for kids, the better, but I’ll even be able to more nefarious more focus.
She has on another guy. The less she has on harassing you or doing this or creating confident voice. Well, and that’s it. Because when she does get into these relationships, she does leave us alone and but they’re always short lived and then you know, she turns turns around and then just starts making our life.
Hell, you know, and it’s everything. It’s it’s all of them. And and part of my problem with that is mom needs a stop. Okay? Grow up. Be an adult, you want to be in charge? Okay, wouldn’t be. Yeah, I like to tell people all time I go. You don’t one of the big things about being the residential parent is it’s your responsibility to facilitate a positive relationship between the kids that had other people.
Yeah. And just the fact that, you know, I mean, I’m constantly having to jump through hoops bend over backwards. Adjust my schedule, cut my workday, short cut my weekends short for, you know, and just one sec. Yeah, just one second. So, you know, there’s no reason she can’t where I’m at.
Now, she can’t come pick them up at my police station, or if I live in Portage County, we can’t meet in the middle, to to where, you know, she’s doing some leg work here. And because if she really does care about those kids, having a relationship with me, she would ensure that I spend the most amount of time, but but now it’s it’s back and forth to West 80 miles every Wednesday.
Yeah. Just just to see him for two and a half hours. Okay, so keep this. What I had proposed was to change the schedule right now what you’re doing every Wednesday, two every Wednesday. And one overnight every other weekend as we talked about With a review, after about six months, whatever, you know, time and say assuming therapy has been, you know, attended and ongoing.
It will go to alternating weekends. And the reason I did that was, it’s again, it’s keeping everything going and making sure everybody’s doing what they need to do. And assuming that is, then the schedule changes, not, it may change. No, I, I’m a big believer of you’re doing what you’re doing, then it changes not because you’re doing what you’re doing.
Oh, let’s not do anything, then it changes. And that’s exactly what I proposed, right? And you know, and that’s and I don’t fault you for that and I don’t blame you for anything and it it’s it’s reasonable for somebody to recommend that. However, just again the patterns of behavior, it’s oh wow, comply.
If people are watching me all you know I’ll say and do the right things when people are watching then as soon as the courts eyes come off of it, it’s right back to do whatever the hell I want. But the other part of that is that would get you to what.
You’re right. Let’s assume that gets you to alternating weekends and Wednesdays, let’s assume we get to that point, okay? And the eyes come off, and that she says, no, there’s, there’s no way to guarantee compliance with them. There’s no, the only way to do it is to bring her back.
And listen, I’ve been saying this to the court for a very long time and that is our entire system has based off the threat that if you don’t do what you’re going to do, the court’s going to slap you down, okay? And while there have been times, I’ve seen people slapped out the fast major area.
I turn a case with another magistrate several years ago. And it was funny because a husband found out and he has a really good lawyer like his lawyer. He was a regional through the whole case, but I understand why is that’s what this client. Didn’t see. His client. Had nine different contemplations up against my client.
My client was found to have committed more active content and it was funny because some of them just bullshit but some of them were she just was being but the only reason and it was funny because, you know, I called her and told her the results and they found me in contempt for this.
She starts crying and I’m like, I’m like okay, let me tell you about your content. Okay. Here’s why you’ve got to because in an email to him. It’s an I will never but won’t and underline ever drive the kids to bowling on your side of town. I could that is the definition of that is.
Yeah, that’s what content I said violating? The order is not really content. Contempt is willfully violating you, right? Okay. Now, what here does here was, you know, they had that in writing for her. And you know, in order couldn’t her contempt, was she had to take the kids for a period of six weeks to their bowling events on dad’s time.
And she had to pay $500 towards dad’s attorney fees of 15 grand. They objected to that I was dying. I’m like, I’m like I told her. I said I will not get bill. I will take it off my bill for you. Trust me. This is you know and it was you know what I said, I go here’s the problem.
When you have some and I said, listen this isn’t the first case I’ve seen where oh hope it. I’m not the right thing. I’m okay and courts are always like, what do we do? How do we have it? Yeah, like here’s how we have. Okay, did anything come out?
That said all parenting time is here by suspended. Was there ever any notification from one parent to the other? Than hey, I have an immune compromise situation or I have ongoing health problems. That make me particularly susceptible to covet that it’s an increase risk, death or anything about that to the children.
No. But you know what we do then we say, you know what, no, we put out in order. That said, parenting time should still be on. So maybe the first two weeks you let it go but after that. No, it’s content. Yeah. And then what are we doing with it?
We say, okay, we give you some makeup time. We awards and attorneys. Because what I always say is, if you don’t punish the behavior, this is a house of, you know, when I have one right now that I have a hearing on Monday and I told the challenge, I could judge my guy only sees this kid for long periods of time in the summer and miraculously after we came to, this great resolution last year, but all this stuff in place, it didn’t appear and all the sudden, oh, she doesn’t want to go this, I go judge.
Here’s what they’re saying, take that piece of paper, they spend all this money on and put it down in the band. Okay? Because here’s the thing, if this is in content I don’t know what it is, right? And if you’re not gonna enforce it doing because you know what, I’m gonna tell that we the next guy that comes into my office for the same problems.
I’m gonna say sure. Forcing others, Here we go. Here’s the decision proving that and doing more Well, right? And you know, like I said that’s that’s what the issue is. Is this magistrate is focused on therapy and sports and not seeing that she is flat out like refusing but and this is, this is where I’ll type.
This is this is what I call managing the narrative, okay? And if there’s one thing I’ll get with Joe, another bit of credit for is, it’s always managing the area, okay? Remember the first hearing I was on in this case and what did he do? Well disappointed that the guardian would say this?
There’s big no one managing veneer, right? Because, you know what? He wants to turn it into, I’m not doing my job, I don’t know what I’m talking about. Manching the narrative, I’ll see what would be the narrative. Otherwise Mom is just not going to let this guy. See the kids period?
You came to an order and February of 20 Cove had hit. You know what? I’ll tell you what? I’ll give you till the end of school think there’s a little scary. Nonetheless. Really knew what the hell you’re going on? Numbers were little money. Will summertime kids? Kind of kids could have been running around, they could admit it apart.
They could have done this, they could have done that. Mom offered no alternative in reserve. No. There you go. That’s not enough. And then and you say there’s where the narrative is, but Joe doesn’t want the narrative to be. Why his mom was holding the kids. He wants the narrative to be joke cloudy is an angry, dude.
Mental health issues, that doesn’t comply. The guardians. Not paying attention, any of this. He’s just once everybody to get along. No, I don’t think you guys will get along, but the reality of it is that’s he’s doing his job, I know. Now, you know, the way agree with it was no.
But what I would say, is, I go the way that it what has to happen. When you do cases like this, I always say, I got your honor. If you want me every single time, there’s a violation of the order to file a new content Ultimate, I don’t care.
It’s more work for you guys and it really is for me. I don’t really give a share. Yeah, My clients got to come to my office sign an affidavit. That’s fine. Okay. But here’s a problem. I go. Do you really want to do that? Or do you want to sell somebody?
Get your shirt together? You have an order and hasn’t been modified, right? And the problem is even when you’re done with us, you say, you know, you’re if not gonna happens to her then wanted achievement, right? You know, we’re you know and it’s you don’t, you know, and you’ll hear this from Joe on your oh, see your plan is to jail.
Their mother is this. No. My plan is to do, whatever I can to get the order to be followed. I don’t want to in jail. I want to see my kids you know well your plans will then show to new it despite me asking, right? And so, you know, kind of touching on that, you know, this is I guess my concern about the third part of your recommendation, the whole therapy thing.
Now I personally don’t think I should be, I guess held to remain in therapy, if if it’s in my mind and my therapist judgment to not continue therapy or, you know, and even if the whole thing with therapy for the kids and I’ve explained to you, like, I have problems getting at least Nikos therapists to listen to me when I do have appointments with him.
It’s just a bunch of like fluff. There’s no actual therapy going on. And things are talking about because because well let me address this first your point about you need to remain in therapy for no I don’t think it is. Okay, when when I said to monitor the progress, I mean just that I mean the nice part about having case management through SES is they can pick up the phone, call your therapist, say how things go, great, really seems to have a handle on things.
It’s developed good tools for this. I don’t think he really needs to continue an ongoing therapy. Don’t don’t, I’m not somebody. I’m not here to guarantee, you’re therapist as a good retirement. You know, that’s not my role. I don’t want that. I want to make sure that because because what happens is and this is my observations of this, okay?
What happens is? You’ll ask your question. You don’t get an answer here. The last another brush you don’t get an answer follow back and ask the first question again. No answer. And then she’ll do something and ask and then starts to create the conflict and it escalates and then it blows up on who knows one, you know, and it’s oh, by the way, the guy just signed the kids up for soccer and this, and it’s gonna be on Wednesdays from 3:45 to 6:30 and you’re just like so I can pick them up from the fucking police station.
Drive them, one field over and it’s sitting in the car for three fucking hours. Yeah. You know, you know, and then you’re finished and you’re like I’m not doing this, I don’t want to take them there, okay, which immediately then and the problem is, you’re all set. Because here I’m being told when and how my time is going to be spent with my kids, right?
Which I understand. But at the same point, it’s do you think your kids truly want to play these things? Yeah. I mean, I know they they enjoy playing sports and the second part of that is mom. And this this was what I was trying to point out. Okay, what day dude they have we have stuff every day.
Okay. Well what’s the day with the least amount of stuff on it? Well, and that’s the thing and you notice, I couldn’t get an answer, I couldn’t get an answer, and I said I go, this is this is a mom, you’re not getting the message here, so let me help you.
Okay, while I want the kids to participate in sports and I want dead to actively participate in, take them to him. I’m also not gonna just be dead, is your taxi service for three hours so you can go do this and watch, you know, and watch some manipulation. Okay, if they’re gonna be in all these things, and they’re gonna have activities at all these times, then we’re gonna find more time for bed, you know, my favorite way.
So, Sunday, afternoons, there’s a lot of soccer practices. Yeah, no, there’s not though. You know, that was a thing. Like, back in the spring, they had this baseball thing on a Wednesday. It was at like five o’clock. Yeah. And yeah. And so all I did was ask for a different day and like you said, like I don’t get a straight answer, it’s not in.
So I keep pressing and yeah, you know, let’s see here. Here’s the learn behavior. This is the pattern, okay? The pattern is delay. Escape don’t answer. Don’t respond respond, vaguely. Give a mixed messages. See he’s crazy. He goes off. Okay, what you got to do. That is know. That’s her name.
Well, no, that’s her game. And then you say, you know what that’s swinging, here’s what I’m gonna do. Mom, I keep being denied my time. We need to move my data to this date. We need to do this, we need to do that, you know, big and then she’s like, well no we have it.
I’m like, hey moms, here’s the deal. There’s gonna be there’s gonna be a day where this is gonna happen or they’re gonna have to if there’s so many activities that they’re just running everywhere at all times, like, guess what? But just not gonna because you don’t want, I don’t truly buy that they’re playing sports seven days a week, right?
Okay. And no offense if they’re playing sports seven days a week under the age of 10. I’m a little concerned about that because that’s a lot of time commitment. Yeah, I would much, you know, and that’s like the therapy. It’s like the therapy and eco I could get away and eco and many you have this because this kind of crazy shape goes on.
Well, yeah and that’s that’s my problem with at least Nikos therapists. I’ve been waiting, it’s very was getting a new therapist. The clinic told me they were going to call me once. He had one I haven’t heard from him so you know. But you know, I don’t know what your I guess observations are with them and kind of what you’re take is but I don’t think they need.
I mean, Nico’s been in therapy for three years and I’m not so sure he’s made three years worth of progress. Now maybe he is dealing with, you know, certain things. He’s not acting out in school anymore. This and that which was the original reason why he was going the first place and it kind of morphs into you know whatever her right is that week or that month.
But he’s going, you know, twice a month and hey, and do I hear do I think, either one of your songs is far in a position where they made therapy on that level. I highly doubt it. I mean you see I’ve seen them think the well, and I think the bigger concern and and and I think Dr.
Lee can be a little engaging on this but my view of that is and these kids want to have a relationship with both of you. And I think it’s so scary to them because they don’t know how to adequately express that without right, creating a conflict with your mom, right?
And that’s, I’ve tried to convey that exact sentiment is that they’re afraid to be expressive with her, because they’ve told me stories, like when they wouldn’t tell her what we, they did at my house for the weekend, she would get angry and lock herself in the bathroom and leave them out in their apartment.
You don’t know that’s coming from them. And I don’t know if that was, you know, embellished, yeah. Um, you don’t know that you can’t verify all of the facts and circumstances, right? And I’m not gonna, you know, that’s not something I would, you know, bring up in court because it is here.
Say and at least Nico has a history of lying and in, so, you know, I take everything, they tell us what the greatest salt, but there’s been a lot like, as soon as they would get in her car, would you do? Would you do? Would you do, you know, who was there?
Who is that their house? You know, listen was Missy there, you know, you know, what is that? Tell you about her. She’s jealous controlling and she’s looking for something. You missed. You’re missed the easiest way. You missed the absolute easiest one. Let me help you. She’s insecure. Oh, incredibly she is so insecure that you are going to great relationship with the kids that she’s not.
And the reality is, you don’t want mom, you don’t want a weekend is when your kids are at the other parents house, it is a fucking weekend for Google you. It is a weekend where you can, you could sign up a half for three hours. Yeah. It is a weekend where you can act pull yourself to the license alone perhaps and stuff music at sleep at 12 hours.
Yeah. Okay, all of my friends that have yeah. Ever. Nice. My sister, my nephew. I want to come here, I want to come over so far to your house so far that I’m like, I have boxing gloves and all kinds of, because it’s fine, you know, and, you know, you don’t have my sister and brother and not do away kids at my house.
Yeah. Yeah. They’re like last but till 9:30 in the next month and I said go you should welcome. Somebody taking your kids for a week you should welcome them going to happen, the worry. Oh, what’s going on helps? There’s nothing her sister is on trying to shoot her sister’s son, who she living there really?
Well, will she selling it’s why do I know that I go washy? How do you know that? I don’t know, you know, a normal person what call up their exposes say, hey the kids said something crazy about the SWAT team and yeah it’s in a raid. So on this weekend yes she won’t.
Like, no. She just makes these presumptions because I don’t know is doing. You know what? Here’s why you don’t know, because you don’t ask, right? Okay. And part of not asking is, you know what, guess what? He’s a fully functional that can do whatever he wants. Providing, it’s not true, we dangerous or harmful to the children.
So you know what, if he wants to have his family over or he doesn’t want to talk to his brother, then let it go, right? You know, and that’s the thing and I think she would badger them and you know, pester them about anytime they spent here, who was here because she’s looking for something to use against me because she’s already planning to be back in court and here’s the thing.
Okay. The reality is and I tell people it’s all there is new practical way we can stop somebody from coming back to court as much as believe me. Yeah. You know, I I’ve talked about the in fact, I have another case, what we’re talking about that very issue right now, and I said, the problem is, it’s people don’t care.
These people make you guys look like the partridge family, is how many times they’ve been thinking? That’s not the good thing and they’ve been put. The problem is, is we as the core always wants to keep the possibility of changing things open because we don’t know what tomorrow is going to bring for your family.
Get. Okay. She could suddenly become addicted to opioid and become a crazy lunatic that ends up you know selling yourself for opioids on the street. What clearly if that’s the case, we want to have the authority to come in there and say, oh change in circumstances. Boom, what, you know, did you get a chance to read the FBS report?
Okay, so you know, she admitted, she was, she’s done cocaine in the past and now she’s got two kids on amphetamines and you know, that concerned me because there is that history and you know, I don’t, I’m not accusing. I’m just that’s my and I read it. I looked I looked and I watched her behavior and was looking for specific things.
I was looking for the erratic behavior that would indicate a pretty significant drug dependence. Yeah, I also looked at. Okay, let’s see how hurt demeanor and the only time that demeanor seems to truly shift is when she’s in that confrontation state. What’s the only one she’s put on the spot and told the truth and doesn’t like hearing the truth about herself.
I won’t I won’t I’ll make it more but I’m and say when she’s in a situation that’s confrontation. Yeah, she becomes immediately more defensive. Yeah. And you know, and it’s funny because even when I’m asking a question, she’s like work, don’t know. Because if you’re working at a, you know, strip club, that might have, you know, some concern on that if I find out, you know, you’re you’re not really working in your making meth and your apartment.
There’s a very reason. I might have some concern, right? I’m not here to talk to cloudy where you work. I’m not here to tell her where you work or when you do her that I’m like I’m here to find out kind of what goes on at your house to the extent possible and does it have any impact on the kids, right?
That’s it. And you know and when I said that to kind of gave me this funny stare and I’m like lady. This is really is crazy. As you think it’s I promise and what I told her is, I said, you understand. Yeah, I said to her cool. You gave him you agreed.
He agreed to one overnight and approximately 12 hours a month, okay? And you decided not to let the kids go. Okay? No offense. There’s no critical put up. You understand that? Right, right. So we mean she’s like I just want my kids to be safe. I go, you know, it’s funny.
I keep hearing and I talk about this. I said I keep hearing over and over again. There’s all these mental health issues, there’s always mental, health issues. I go, I got two really good lawyers that have done this a long time. Not one of you is asked for any type of mental health evaluation and I know why that is nobody wants to drop the 6,000 dollars, it’s going to cost to get started right?
And beyond that it’s probably going to be about 15 by the time we get to a report and testimony of trial. I said so are they that serious? Or are you just trying to throw this out? There I go because I got to tell you the truth lady. The first question out of my mouth is going to be where?
Hold on. Where did your psychology degree? Come from right away. You work at a preschool right? You know I go so stop with his mental deal unless you’ve got a diagnosis that proves these mental meal, you don’t have it. Well and I’ve told you before like I have been in therapy for three plus years because of the constant tension and turmoil and you know, strain on the relationship with my kids.
I could care less what she does. As long as she’s not harming my kids, but she’s having my relationship with my kids. Don’t tell I’m Adam. That. Can you gentlemen, give me these all great. Deposition, gotta go, can you please point to visit my clients home in Brooklyn New York?
Sure. Hold on, let me get my car. I’ll drive out there. Where is Joe’s email from yesterday. Not even Joe. I’ve a better relationship with has under lives. Yeah.
Oh yeah. Okay witness lists. That’s the witness for him. And I’ll forward this year. If you’d like Marco, you me custodian a records for my player, Melissa, Becky, your wife, Andrew Tarr, your site of your psychologist or your therapist, John and Mary Regala, right? That’s her parents. Right Dr.
Amy Lee. Rebecca Bryson therapist. Rebecca Kowalski. Any idea? She’s she works at the school. Okay. Yeah Lisa Foshee. She’s that was Vinny’s teacher two years ago, first grade teacher Mallory Howard College guidance counselor Stephanie Moran don’t know her Lisa missed a bitch. My sister your sister showing me the best answer.
No. And I have some stuff for you today that we haven’t yet to get to but so, okay. So let me just be completely blunt and just ask flat out. Can you give me a reason, or an explanation on why you don’t think changing custody is, is in the best interest?
At this point I have concerns given that they have been with Mom solely for such a period of time and resided primarily with her. But that kind of a change in addition to the school change and everything else will be harmful to them. I think it would be very challenging for them to do that.
I think they love their mom, I think they love you. I think they want to spend time with both of you and and are trying to figure out the way to navigate their way through that. I’ll be honest with you. I think if we’re behavior, doesn’t change the next few years, I think it’s kind of backfire.
I really do. Think it’s gonna backfire, I know. And it I guess. I I’ve held that help out for a while now and it just seems to be this. No consequences. No, repercussions. No, you know, she gets away with what she wants. Her mom and dad just will keep footing the bill for the attorney.
And here, I see the people all the time, I don’t know where the money comes from jail. Okay. I don’t know what, you know. I have seen females in cases that I, I take my head been told in, I’ve read a lot, you know. And, and, and, and I like Joe.
I think he can be a very charismatic and charming person at times. I know that deal dealing with them. As a colleague of mine, says, it just kills a little bit more of your soul. Each child. I said, well mine’s been dead for a while, so I don’t care anymore.
But what I tend to say is I go, you know, You’re going to she gets on this money on medication and this is round two. So my guess is round one. Probably costs somewhere today. Occurred at 20 or 30 grand F2. If you know, it’s not more, if not more and round 2 will be at least.
Okay. But here’s what I’m using and then publicly might, okay, blood and rocks come to mind. I don’t know why that is. But you know and what I always say is like, okay that’s some point. The money runs out. And at some point, the kids and pain. And what do you have?
Because she might be the person cash or retirement to do this every time. Okay? And what I say is like you don’t want that catches up to you, okay. At 25 or 35 doesn’t seem like a bad idea at 50. You’re like I have how many more years before.
I’m theoretically going to retire and I have what to show food, right? You know what I say is like you don’t want you want to do that. Why that’s she did the theory behind it is it’s so expensive. You have to stop, okay? And you know, I I I’ve done enough for this with Joe that normally I know the pattern of, you know, I can say, let’s do this now.
Okay, it’s two hours a month. That’s it, you know. Well and I’ll look at him ago. No, have like one avatar trial and like some other day that ends and why let’s get going. Do you know when I always say I don’t care I go I don’t think it’s good for the kids.
I don’t think it’s good for that. I think the kids the kids need if the kids need a therapist that is going to be a sounding a post for them especially as they get old right. Because what’s going on now here. Okay. Does any have any HD just Disney go?
Have some ADHD? I don’t truly doubt they do. I think it’s a crutch. Yeah. Do they seem to be doing well in school and functioning? Well, they both have never had poor grades. Okay, you know, so my concern about that is what are we really trying to do? Yeah.
And and and, and what I really think in the baggy does with you is she does these things and does these things, and moves them around two parts. I do believe that there is a belief that she is helping each other, okay? I do believe that she is being a mom and being a parent and trying to keep him involved in, wanting them to care and wanting things.
And this and here is without a question of my mind. The added benefit of sticking it to you showing look, I’m making these decisions and you’re not participating, okay? Right. Because then she knows you’re gonna get pissed. Well, then she can be, because I think she enjoys this, I think she enjoys being with it.
Well, of course. Okay. So that gives her that opportunity. And then, Joe is black Barb. And then look at Joe’s, the bad guy. I’m the victim. Everybody pity me, okay? My answer is, you know, the only lady if you’re truly an abusive victim and you do this, you get to a point where you realize it ain’t about fucking with the other person.
It’s about getting right, okay. And that’s not what you’re doing. You’re wrong. Yeah, she is engaging, you know, or instigating she truly the master manipulator that she’s controlling the Westlake you know everyational department activities. No. But you know, here mom and and I say this to people all the time, you know, it’s amazing, what you can sometimes get without you ask a question as opposed to, you know, making a statement exactly of faint.
They want to play soccer. Here’s the schedule. What do you think, right? And, you know, and I I’ve talked about like she does lack empathy because she doesn’t understand what it would be like to be in my position and that the definition of empathy is the ability to understand another person’s partner, right?
And prioritizing sports over meaningful time in or prioritizing the kids desires to be around me not her concerns, about my living situation or
You got to keep in mind. You’re asking her to recognize how things impact you when she’s insecure about, anytime the kids spend with anybody else. But her right? It’s not going to happen, that would be the next level. All right thinking. So the best thing you can and this is what I say, I don’t look you know I have no doubt your kids like playing sports For my conversations with them.
You know Nico was very excited about baseball. Chad was very, you know, it was very looking forward to and having a great time. What I found is, you know, he was like, yeah, I kind of want my dad to come to the game. I’m like, well, talk to Daddy.
Tell him. Hey, this was my big game. Is there a way you could be there or you can do this? I said, yeah, I said Nico. I go, you’re gonna learn this sooner or later in life. So, let me help you with it. Now the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Remember that site okay. When you ask for something, you agree of getting it, right, at least getting it out there as to what you want or this or you need something. If you express that to somebody, then you can do it, okay? It’s like you’re feelings. If you express your feelings to happen along, they’re your feelings.
Well, that’s that was, that’s been his problem. Like, when they were at my house regularly. Like, you know, I Melissa. And I both would have talks with Nikos specifically about expressing, what you’re feeling, what you’re thinking, what you’re going through, you’re not going to get in trouble for saying what’s on your mind because you could tell he was so riddled with anxiety because he didn’t want to say the wrong thing, or he didn’t want to, you know, and and part of that.
And and it’s good because it’s it’s good to have that talk but part of it is, he’s got to he’s got to come to that just you know Nico is what I would describe as a people. Okay, absolutely. And the problem with people please is and especially as kids in this situation personal.
Right answer. Okay. I I spoke at a law school class for a couple years and I would always do this but have another, you know person another lawyer sent here and I’d like you’re the kid. I’m the parent will you want to live with me, right? And the kids looking up like it unlike it?
What’s the right answer to that? Yeah you know and and the problem is if you apply that to any time you’re really having a conversation like that what’s the right answer, right? And again, I want you to understand this is not, this is this is a math equation. Okay, a picture of that way.
So here’s your part of it. Here’s her part of it. So you have the same or similar things going on on both sides, okay? Ideally we want the parents communicating back and forth. Share, hey, this is what happened here, this is. What’s going on here? Yeah, when you don’t have that, you still have it going on and you may be getting two different responses.
Oh I have no doubt that there’s so there’s been mixed signals and you know everything is and think about everything is a problem, everything is a conflict, everything is a drama, everything is this? I just want, peace. Okay, you just want peace. Then what very worried about the film, okay?
Weird tell me what it is. What to shoot. I want you to tell me bit by bit. What are the concerns about dad’s house? Okay. Why would you, I wouldn’t let jazz. Okay, the kids come back with a black eye that the kid come back. Wreaking of No. So much.
You’re concerned. We don’t know what’s going on there. Well, dad doesn’t know what’s going on your house, but he knows you’re safe. I go. So hold on. So, here in lies this room answer. It’s not you don’t know what’s going on. It’s you to trust that right? Okay. Well man, you made two mistakes, starting about will over decade ago, and that is who decided to have two children, somebody you don’t feel you controls, okay?
And you know who here in this room, is gonna fix that problem for you. No. There you go. YouTube. Okay? The reality of the situation and the funny part is, I hear old. She had a fairly bad who cares? Who cares? Have you read only read Dr. Lee’s notes of you spoken with her.
I called her. I, I spoke to her briefly and I I actually need to schedule a follow-up call with her, you know, because just kind of circling back that that is, you know, a lot of the things in this is where I have problems working with Dr. Lee, let me ask you this.
What would you want to talk to Dr? Leah about well like if you gave me a catalog list, one, two, three, four, whatever, the those issues of what you want to like, say okay, what’s going on? I mean as far as you know she is told me before that I have a bad relationship with Nico.
And it’s again, that’s not really accurate, but I guess I want her to do actual therapy if that’s what he truly needs. I want I want a game plan as far as a this is this is going to be another good example of, it’s not what you say, it’s how you say.
Well yeah. And and what I would suggest and and and what I would suggest in that situation, I’m this is how I would approach it with her and and I know my conversation with her. What I said is, here’s what I’ve noticed. Here’s what I’ve seen. What do you think?
And and, you know, I kind of let it go and part of it is my concern is Nico is a people pleaser caught in a high conflict difference. Okay. To use the baseball analogy. He’s always starting it. Oh too. Okay, there’s just no good. There’s just no good out to that.
And what I would say is, what concerns do you have? And what tools can we provide? We go to make him feel more comfortable expressing his feelings to mom and dad and can that be accomplished through you? And Ed. I have said all of that to our almost verbatim and, you know, because I would get check her notes and you know, stuff that because she was only hearing moms aside, you know, see the stuff in the notes it’s flat out wasn’t true.
So I would kind of let her know you know my side or the reality of it or and she would always say, well we’re not dwelling on the past, even though it’s relevant or she would say, I would say, you know, what is your, what is your what are your therapy goals for eco?
Like how do you have a, you know, an end as far as where where do we get to the next step? Does he is he just perpetually in therapy talking about a thing here or a thing there throughout the month? Or is it, you know, we’re working on these techniques or, you know, because I’ve told her I’ve tried to get him to be expressive.
I told her why, I think he’s withdrawn or not expressive, or why he does some of the things he does and, you know, and it’s it’s not necessarily always accusatory to his mother, but at the same time I have to, I have to be honest with her, in my observations of what I’ve seen in my home for years.
And I you know, she’s just very kind of reluctant to explore any of these issues. She does get to finish. I think part of it, is she my rec? Because I look through a lot of those same notes and my read of it is when these interactions take place between you and her, I get the feel and this is just from reviewing the notes that it’s very confrontation and I don’t think it’s meant to necessarily be that way.
And and I always say, I go you don’t, my thing is I I tell people all the time. I say, you know, if I want the kid in therapy, I want to kid in therapy and say, and I, and I’ve said this many a time I said, listen document my view of you is, you are Switzerland in the middle of the world or you are neutral.
What comes in here, stays in here, till the end of the world. Whenever the hell that is, as far as I’m concerned, you know, if you think there are things that need to be known, they need to be conveyed to mom and dad or need to be this that you bring them in and you tell them what you feel, they need enough.
Well I’m not I’m not this person that thinks you know this is not this therapy is not mom and and Nick of her mom and Vinny or dad and Vinnie and dad need. This is there’s and you bring in whoever you need to bring in at any given moment.
That’s helping that that child, you know. And that’s and I and I think a lot of this is it seems to have gotten off on. I don’t know what the right term is the wrong foot with Dr. Lee, where she thinks? Oh when you just don’t believe he has ADHD and it’s I think you’re I don’t think it’s you’re saying I don’t know, you don’t know what you’re talking about back.
I get the impression. It’s more of, is there something we could, you know? Okay, the secret is that but can we maybe start looking at some of these other things in our bees part of the problem, before we throw them on stimulus. Let’s give a man you know, amphetamines and go go forth and this and I think, you know, and when I say it’s like oh yeah, the medication is great because the medication treats the symptoms.
Okay, it’ll alleviates the symptoms, it doesn’t solve the underlying problem, right? Okay. And you know, with young kids and ADHD, I think that there is a I think there’s an overdiagnosis problem in this country now because I think it’s easier to say oh yeah that’s that do this. However, I also believe that as kids get older.
They grow a lot of it, or it minimizes itself for it, reduces share and part of that is your body, you know, I said to somebody, I said, you know, just when I hear the descriptions of ADHD, I’m like, I think I would have fit into that. Do I think I have ADHD?
No, I think I have high anxiety, and just was smart. And would start to get on the topic and go well off into the weeds. Okay, we’re in, I needed a teacher to yell my name. So flash back in and start doing my work again. I don’t think that means.
I have ADHD to the point. I should have been medicated. I think it means sometimes kids need a little redirection in a little more attention than others. Right. You know and and again I’m not here to do a doctor’s job. I’m here to do this but part of it is I think and I want to say doctorally, I go I don’t care.
I I go and this is one of my issues with therapists in general. I would say you start talking to mom and you start talking to dad. I go. Here’s the thing, you will be thinking you’re reading two different books. Even like there’s this, how the hell are these books, the same?
There’s no way there. Don’t nothing. I said. So what I want you to do is keep in mind when you’re having that conversation. The only thing you’re looking for there is what lines are coming out circle. That’s it, you know, and I say I go, I go, I understand, you know, you’re not here to take sides and you’re not doing this and you’re not doing, I’m not asking you to do that.
I’m not asking you to pick who’s right, right, what I’m asking you to say is clearly there’s a divergence of what they believe on and unless it’s truly relevant, you know, like who left, who were dead houses, this unless it’s somehow truly relevant to what’s going on with the child and impacting that child.
Put it off to the side because it’s it’s, it’s superfluous, you don’t want, right? And, you know, I’ve even, you know, every time I do have an appointment with her shortly, there after I either hear from her or from Stafford. Oh, well, Dr. You just had an appointment to talk to lady.
Yell at her threaten her this like, and it’s like, what’s the point with doctor? Well, I need to make one, but I wanted to talk to you first. I want you to make one and I want you to ask her, it’s okay. If I attend, okay, let me know, I don’t care what it is.
I’ll make myself available with Rico or just me. This is you because I got, I got yelled at for that, because he is so again, and again, managing it is, it is controlling the narrative. I, you know, wouldn’t wish that I go and you notice when I said it, I said your honor.
It’s my understanding that made an appointment mom, felt that the child shouldn’t miss school for this so it got cancer. I go. No, you know, and it’s, it’s, you know, I got, I got they yelled at me for having an appointment with just myself and not Nico, but this was shortly after I had begun seeing them again after nine months and I wanted to let Dr.
Lee know about what I’ve seen since, you know, I started seeing them again. I didn’t see that as a I am here. What? I get these things I always I always get a kick out of it because I’m just like he went named appointment with the kids. Counselor to kind of talk to them to kind of get the straight toe bond.
Anything going on with them any concerns. This is precisely what we would ask. A, I don’t know, water. I watch your to realize you were yelling at him about and again I’m gonna be very out. I had a case. I have another case Mr. Stafford. Actually I have four.
I’ve lost track Where we started yellow, we started doing this and and I will tell you, I think part of the problem, I have with the way the court conducts, these pre-trials is it’s not conducive to working things out. Yeah, it’s not because when you’re on there and Maggie’s on there and the lawyers are on there, I don’t think it’s a shock to say that.
There’s a bit of a show going on, absolutely, okay. When it’s lawyers, there’s still some showmanship. There’s still something that but it’s less, right? Okay. So part of my problem is, you know, oh you just want trial, Joe jump, cloudy usual. I’ll try to use what this stuff like here.
If we did a ranking here of the number of cool wants a trial. The least, what’s be honest? It’s you, you don’t want to rank this, this pile of crap. You don’t want to listen this for six days. Okay, the either, one of these people can truly afford six days of crazy.
Okay. I don’t have the time for six days. Crazy. So we all have a vested interest in settlement, right? Let’s be honest, it’s not gonna get done by young and, and by the way, your cases, not unique, I I’ve heard everybody, I know. Yeah. She started yelling, and by the way, before you got on, and when we had our conversation, she started yelling and me and Joe, because we were yelling about another.
Yes, no. I was there. Yeah, I saw and I said, I go, you know, if here’s the thing she can yell and you see it, he starts me up in themselves. Starts playing the game that starts doing this. I go. You understand the lawyers where the kids that were sitting in the back of the classroom that couldn’t be, because we’re bored.
And we’re doing whatever. So that’s part of this problem. Sure. But when this all sorts go on, it’s it’s an obfuscating. I always tell people when you have a case. Mr. Staff, and he’s a great way. I tell people all time I said, I wouldn’t hire him because I don’t know, I just feel like sometimes it gets a little too crazy, but what I, what I say is I could, you can’t deny as results, you know?
Because it drag it out, he’ll be people walking, okay, we’re recording, so, they get them right, you know? But what I also say is, I go, if you’re gonna have that case, it’s eyes on the price. People, come into my office, I get a case with Joe. I tell him I got I’m gonna be very honest with you.
This is gonna cost three times as much as it should and probably take four times as long as it’s true. Yeah, no. That going in the door and a year from now, when you’re yelling at me about, I’ve spent 75,000 dollars and I’m nowhere on. What the hell is this for?
And this and that I’m gonna be like, do you remember first conversation we had? This is why I said that, you know, but it’s always eyes on the fronts. Keep in mind what you’re going for what you’re doing and why? Because you have to. Yeah. And, you know, even, you know, speaking of therapy like, you know, and I’ve you’ve even mentioned this before, how she has all these medical bills piling up as no intention of paying them?
You know, I passed first social security numbers. You know how many times to eat the burden on both of us and I can’t even get that. And and again it’s you know, we don’t want to talk, you know. It’s it’s again if we look deep enough in the mess it’s not what issue, it’s not.
No, it’s not this. It’s all of it. It’s all of it. It’s how do we make this here? You know, and part of that is okay. I always say to people, I go. When I get a case, I look at it as it’s okay, we’re gonna pray for peace.
We’re gonna prepare for one. We are, I I tell people I said, like Joe, I get along with them. I can work with him but I’m going to assume when I get a case with him, we are going to stipulate to nothing and agree to nothing. So everything is a fight, everything is on right?
Everything is everything, is that you should buy an issue by issue by issue by issue. And I do that, and I said, it’s crazy, it’s time consuming and it’s extremely expensive, but the only way you’re gonna get it done right, issue? She’s not paying the medical bills. Here’s the bills.
He’s gone. Here’s what she is. She hasn’t paid it. Joe, have her pay it. No good time. You know, and again, at least a filed contempt, like a month ago in, they still haven’t said a date for that, you know, folded into our trial. It’s gonna get folded into our trial, you know.
I do want to be respectful of your time. I don’t just looking over, you know? So like health insurance, that social security numbers. Like I mean I don’t see why that, you know, she said she doesn’t feel comfortable putting it on the app when it’s a secure app and things like that.
But some questions I did have for, you know, when we first initially met in January, I gave you a list of like collateral contacts and I do contacting them now. Okay, I do them all at the end, okay? There was a show myself, a plan of what, do I want to talk to when it in.
I, you know, like I said, I was talking my parents the other day and I do, I, they would like to talk to you and I don’t believe they were on the list initially. Okay, email me with their contact information. I okay. Yeah. And then so you had kind of touched on it because my sisters on the witness lists.
So and speaking, with my parents, the other day, you know, they had said because like I told you once last February was over, she cut them off my entire family, a couple facets here and there but you know refusing contact and all that. I’m looking at something very special sure.
Okay, so here’s the thing, I wanted to see who the two subpoenas were just because again so they issued a subpoena to your employer. I want to say that the week ago they issued a subpoena to Melissa and season. Okay. I will tell you the names on there determine.
Oh, I know, because it’s the same list from last year, it’s the same exact list. Once you started reading them. I knew exactly what you were going to say next, but you know I well like, you know, my sister took it upon herself. I did not ask her to do this, she did write a letter.
Oh, and then also she sent me a bunch of text messages between her and Margo over last few years. And you know, a lot of it is you can see the malice and the intense from a lot of things. And and the mentality of what she was doing. Like when we were in hearings last time we were I was ordered to provise visitation.
She she did one visit in September. The supervisor wanted to do two week, two weekends from then, to be consistent. You know, to kind of keep that going. Keep a pair, I didn’t suggest it. The supervisor did. She said it was her birthday weekend. Um, so she refused. So she thought that was my suggestions.
So she in writing and you will see she suggested my wedding date knowing that my wedding was out of town and it wouldn’t be able to and, and, you know, laughing about it and yucking it up and with your sister and yeah, you know, I’ve told you we my siblings and my parents, we’ve had a strained relationship and you’ll kind of see why.
And in this letter, especially my sister will admit that we’ve had our differences. But you know, they’ve came to find out the hard way that they were all being used and manipulated for that’s specific case and nothing else. And, you know, it’s it, you know, and it it might even be worth talking to my sister.
I’m if you have, you know, questions, let me ask you this. At the end of the day. What do you think is Maggie’s? Underlying is it for an images disappear from the kids wires, it’s more or less a torment into because what I always tell people is I said you know here’s a thing you really wanted to do away you really want to go I never encourage.
I’ve had clients, I’ve had clients do to walk away, I’ve had this the attorney I’ve had it as the guardian and you know last time I had one as a guardian I said hey dude you do it go ahead because here’s the bottom line in a body here you’re gonna realize and you’re gonna come back and I’m gonna make you look like a trained seal because you’re gonna jump through so many who stick it back into your kids lives.
You’re not gonna believe it, you know. But what I always say is if you’re gonna do it, a lot of what your money we’re about this. Oh you don’t need dad, you don’t need this. Well, guess what? Let’s kill the support. Let’s kill off the parent time and let’s see what happens.
I can. And you know what? I always get back. No, because he were child is to pay right to pay financially, to take time away from my wife and my other child to make me, jump through those hoops and bend over backwards and to do her bidding in when, and it is emotionally and mentally taxing and exhausting doing that.
Because I can’t just do what I want with my kids. When I want or even on the time, I’m allowed, then she’ll like, oh say he’s, you know, he doesn’t want to he was, doesn’t he just, you know, he treats me bad and you know, it’s he has this.
She has this thing against my wife, they have zero relationship but she got like you said insecure and jealous. Once Nico started taking a liking to her when we were living there and then all of a sudden he’s acting funny and saying that judge said not to talk to her because you know, that idea was put into his head.
So, you know, it’s it’s a whole combination of things and like you said it boils down to insecurity and in control and saying you’ll see and this is something I always watch. I’ll make some recommendation. I’ll do this. Oh yeah. Well you just talked with the kids there. And what do you think they’re gonna say?
I’m like, that’s funny Mr. Stafford, you know, it’s not in my reporters, what the kids said. So, I’m wondering where you came up with this information, right? And given it didn’t come from the other party. I guess the only real conclusion I can your party interrogating, the kids about my conversations and here I tell people on time I go I’ve eventually if pushed hard enough, I will have to disclose what kids say to me.
You know, I don’t like doing it. I think it puts them in the middle, but part of it is, you know, mom, if you need to hear that that the kids walk through dad and want to be in his life and want to spend time with them and they have their blue, you know, brother over there.
They want to spend time with that. They think it’s awesome. Okay, go here’s the thing, I don’t care. What do you like it? Okay, I don’t care whether you like his new wife, guess what? Your ability to impact change on his life ended. The moment you got, you were no longer visually married, so that’s my goal.
That’s my situation. I’m like you don’t like it. It’s okay, you know.
Okay. Writing this down. So I will send you my parents and my sisters information and then, you know, as far as, you know, your recommendation. I mean, what about school? Breaks vacations, holidays? And in this, I felt bad about because it didn’t get into. No, all of that is exclusive.
Yeah, all of that is included. Yeah, I just, you know, I I frankly, you know, I didn’t fully realize it when I was looking at your last order until I looked very closely ago. Birthdays, there’s no holidays, there’s no nothing no days waiting, no. So, you know, I here, I don’t care that you’re doing, you know.
Okay. You agree to the schedule, you agree to the holiday stays special meeting, it’s stuff like that should have been okay. That I agree that should have been it, you know, um, you know, and just just to clarify. So you think that there’s no reason giving given everything, there’s no reason to change, you know, custody arrangements based on you think it’s detrimental to them, you know to their I guess way of life if you will or, you know, they’re living arrangements.
I mean, are we talking short-term long-term? I’m talking longer I right now, long-term, I mean here, are you asking me if this behavior persists? Do I think it’s not subject to change? No, I do not. I think right now is not the right thing to do, do it, you know, and, and I haven’t written my report.
Yeah, it’s, I’ve started the outline, but I will be very honest about it is, you know, part of it is. I’m gonna say the games and the, the passivity. They have the passive, aggressive behavior, and the angry communication stop. I said it is about communicating information back and forth pertaining to the children, okay?
And again, I will, I can guarantee we have a hearing I’ll be testifying about. Here’s the problem with the pattern. Here’s the problem with the pattern. This is what I see. Dad will ask something sites that will ask something else silence. Dad will circle back ask again. Now he’s getting angry because now masking the foot.
A third thing that I’m not getting a response on that mom will put something out there that’s not asking him. It’s just letting you know, oh, I set this up. So screw you, you’re gonna lose some time, okay? And it doesn’t say that I get it, but that’s how Dad reads it, right?
So then dad sends an angry email and then boom, we have a bowl off and then it all you’re the victim of your own circumstance, right? Pay your bills, I don’t have anyone, I don’t care, I didn’t ask them. I didn’t ask about how much money I asked, pay your bills.
Yeah, or okay or dad found a way that we can apply for this blur insurance. That could cover some of this. Why don’t we do that? That seems like that is idea, is free of charge and they cover anything. My primary doesn’t cover and it took my son to the doctor yesterday and they had both insurance is on file.
Hey mom, no offense. But what is your, Where’s your health insurance? Okay. Why are you covering some of these expenses? Okay? Because the bills come in dad’s name, even though you’re the one taking, and then with their addresses share, and then what happens, right? So, you see what the problem is Bob.
The problem is, is you want everybody to see? You’re the victim, okay? And Joe loses his temper. And Joe is angry at this event. Well, you know, what? If you get, told the blank yourself so many times, eventually, you become angry, right? And like, you know, seven years non-stop ongoing, you know, pattern, just repeats and repeats, and repeats, You know?
It’s it’s just you know, it’s just kind of crazy to me that it has been allowed to go on this long project. I problems and my problem with the system is the system is not truly set up with these types of problems. No. Okay. Because my thing is it’s, you know, mom simple question, what’s their social security?
I don’t know. Did that ask for yes or no? Yes sure. No he did right. Did you provide those to him? No. Why not? I go. He told you. Why did? Because he wanted to look into this insurance, right? You didn’t respond, you didn’t say, I’m not coming. You said, I’m not comfortable.
Putting them in this form. Did you write them down on a piece of paper mail to his address? No, did you call them on the telephone and give it to him? Did you hand them a piece of paper at any one of the myriad of parenting time exchanges? You’ve had recently with their social security numbers, written down?
No matter fact. It is nothing. Is that pretty accurate? You ignore it, right? And then won’t be. After you’ve ignored it after Dad repeatedly asking you, he got frustrated and angry and lashed down. Didn’t he, right? So, did you have any parted? Would you agree with me that you had any part in that causing him to lash out?
Anywhere that no, here’s a big commute, right completely. He’s just a, he’s just a loose canon that you never know when it’s gonna walk, right? Is that how it works? Okay, because here’s the thing, you’re not there to convince her, you’re not there to convince them. You’re there you can spend some extra right.
Okay. Like I said, if Jones represents you he’d be doing the exact same thing in reverse, I know, I know. Yeah, I say that all time. I said you know I respect him greatly I’d like him to use this powers for good a little more often than he does.
But we want the part of it is your kids deserve to have a normal relationship, right? I think dinner three times a month and then ignoring and overnight and one over me and I know it needs to be more real. Please be more freaking needs. The move to something better.
Your kids are not young and can’t take care of themselves. They cannot they’re able to record if there’s a concern. There’s no concerns, right? Right. They’re concerned is they want to make sure you stay in their life and they’re scared. Because, how do I express that? And do that and handle, that and deal?
So, all right, sir, I’m gonna let you go. Sure, thank you for the time. Hey, appreciate it. Really send me that email with your parents contact information. Okay, you were do you have the kids Wednesday? The next Wednesday is coming Wednesday. Yes. Are you gonna be at your house?
Yes. Okay.


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